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6 comments:
I do wonder your opinion on R-L21 haplogroup subclades prevelance in Britain, Ireland, and Britanny.
I had read previously that it was associated with a branch from the Unetice culture in central europe, and coincides with the the introduction of the bronze age in Britain and Ireland.
Is L21 prevelance an overhype by defining it as a celtic Y haplogroup because of its prevelance in modern celtic speaking nations. Or could the introduction of L-21 in Britain coincide with Q celtic languages? And possiblely R1b-u152 associated with iron age migrations introduced a P celtic language from modern day france(as evident by its similarities with Modern day Breton, a P celtic language). Explaining the divergence between Q and P could have happened more in central europe and then a later a P celtic language arrived in Britain in the iron age?
In your video, and I'll attempt to paraphrase, you lean more to Q and P celtic arriving as one celtic language in the iron age. What do you believe the language branch that Britain and Ireland were most likely speaking when the introduction of R-L21 came into Britain? Awesome video!
I'd like to state that question more out of genuine curiosity, (I don't have any biased attachment to a particular group) and the search for truth rather than of an accusatory tone.
Also I'm assuming that Bretons adopted P celtic because of their high percentage of R-L21, though I really don't know which is partly why I'm asking the question.
@Bailey
R-L21 and associated subclades are frequent in EBA Britain which is before Celtic languages arrived. We need to look at other lineages to see when the Celts arrived and that is either in the MBA as the paper claims, or LBA/EIA as I believe. EBA is too early by any reasonable estimation.
G2a2b and R1b U152 seem good candidates for Celtic language carriers
To clear up some confusion, my assumption was that iron age celts brought the P-celtic language and La tene material culture associated with the idea of celts. And that the R-L21 populations that I call "celtic" is in reference to their origins branching off prior to the iron age culture that originated in central europe. Are they linked by this split and would have spoken some type of proto-celtic language (if Q celtic is too early) before the Iron age Celts arrived? Or are they genetically and possibly linguistically related more to northern populations like those in the Nordic bronze age.
To clarify my previous comment when I refer to R-L21 as celtic, I'm not referring to the iron age material culture (and most likely language) brought to the British isles. If Q celtic is too early for EBA would they have spoken another, now extinct, proto celtic language? Or are these populations more genetically similar to Northern populations like those in the Nordic bronze age. Making it more likely they were speaking a proto germanic language?
I rewatched the video and looked at the time scales for indo-european languages and understand exactly now. R-L21 would have arrived in the British Isles when PIE was still being spoken. So the populations would have either still spoken PIE or potentially by the time celtic languages arrive (most likely with Iron age culture), their own extinct branch of Proto indo european.
For context I am doing a presentation on bronze age europe next week and was worried about someone asking me that question haha. Thank you!
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